Creationists on Campus!
Today began as most days do. Wake up, have a shower, brush my teeth, feed the goat that has taken up residence in my dishwasher, and then head off to uni. On my way home from uni, however, things got interesting.
Some of you may remember a while back Ray Comfort wrote an introduction to The Origin of Species and set up a big book giveaway on US university campuses. To refresh your memory:
So, guess what was going on at the University of Melbourne tram stop today? That’s right -- the Ray Comforted version of The Origin of Species was being handed out to young and…well, mostly young, actually. I sent out a tweet and was soon joined by Jack Scanlan.
I had a discussion with one of the people who were handing out the books, and was primarily shocked at how forthright he was about how little he understood of biology, geology…and, well, science in general. I was expecting, as a non-biology student, to have a great deal of trouble coming up with satisfying answers for questions or ‘problems’ he might pose -- the hardest biology question he put forward, though, was about designing an experiment that would show new information being added to a genome. I came up with this one off the top of my head, but he seemed unperturbed, changing the topic to whether or not the species had changed.
What was most perplexing to me was how much of not just the life and earth sciences he was willing to throw out in order to fit reality to his beliefs, but how much fundamental physics he was willing to do away with as well. As a Young Earth Creationist, he was quite happy to assert that the universe had been created only ten-thousand years ago in complete contradiction to everything we’ve learnt since the eighteenth century.
In response to being asked how he could account for things like the known half-life of radioactive elements he asked whether or not the half-lives could have changed since the creation of the universe -- this, I think, highlights one of the basic problems inherent in arguing with a Creationist. No matter how much evidence you have on your side, they’ve always got an omnipotent big brother on their side who can change the laws of physics and put illusions up to fool you. Once you’ve descended into territory that says the universe is younger than the time it takes a photon created in the centre of the sun to reach the earth, you might as well stop bothering. Any pretense of rationality has been abandoned.
Sadly, neither I nor Jack had a camera handy to record that conversation, and soon after I had to head off home (I have a lot of work to get through before dinner). Luckily, however, after I left Jack was interviewed on camera by some of the Creationists, and Jason got some footage on video as well. Hopefully we’ll see that online soon.
In the meantime, hopefully a lot of UMSS members got books at the tram stop today -- not only because means less opportunity for the books to find their way into the hands of vulnerable students, but because it means we might be able to have a discussion group about the introduction at some point in the future. I picked up five, so if we do set something like that up I’ll be able to give out or loan books to members who need a copy.
Filed under: Creationism, Religion, University
[...] both of whom grabbed a copy of the book and started talking to the people handing them out. Richard wrote about it on his new blog Divisible By Pi – check that out, he goes into detail about his particular [...]
“less opportunity for the books to find their way into the hands of vulnerable students”, sounds like free-thinkers to me, NOT. Don’t you want people to be able to see both sides, or are you scared they might see the foolishness of macro evolution. Jack’s explanation of our origins was totally unscientific, and just goes to show the amount of faith atheists/agnostics have in their theory. It was a pleasure interviewing him though. God Bless.
Understand that I am definitely for free speech, and that I know and would not challenge your right to give out free books.
However, also understand that I have a pretty big issue with people who lie to and take advantage of vulnerable (that’s the key word) students; and make no mistake, this book is geared to do both in spades.
The aim of the book (and I heard this specifically suggested to multiple students) is to get people to read the first fifty pages and forget the rest.
Many of the people who received books today are too smart or confident to be swayed by the weak arguments contained in the introduction or by discussion with the people who were handing out books; there is, however, a subset of the population that for whatever reason finds themselves vulnerable, and the last thing they need is to be taken in by a friendly smile and a big lie.
In short, I you certainly have the right to try and convert people – but I also have the right to try and get them the truth.
[...] Cross-posted from Divisible By Pi [...]
[...] had a check through the contents of the Comforted version of The Origin of Species, and it seems that the entire book is there. Previous copies of the book, such as the one given to [...]
Thanks Mobyseven,
The problem is that you see creationism as a lie, and I see a most of the stuff about macro-evolution as a lie.
You say you want to get them the ‘truth’, what is truth in an atheist’s eyes? Besides, if evolution has got us so far, then just let them evolve or be left behind. Anyway I hope you enjoy your copy, they’re becoming a cherished collectors item. God Bless
@divisible by pi, apparently there are actually four chapters devoted to the evidence for evolution that have been mysteriously deleted. Ray comfort said that four chapters were deleted randomly in order to make the book small enough for print. Bs excuse
@skepy:
See here. I haven’t actually gone through the book yet, but all of the chapters from the original book are actually listed with page numbers associated with them, so I assume (until further notice) that it’s all there.
Review copies given out (e.g. to Eugenie Scott) were missing chapters, but that was supposed to be rectified before the university giveaways.
To ‘Interviewer.’ It’s great that you’re challenging evolutionists. That’s what they want and I’d like to see you develop your argument. If you think it’s a ‘lie’ (I can’t imagine the benefit to anyone about lying about this observation but you might) then present your case. Give your evidence, your side of the story. Let’s have it out.
Btw, On The Origin Of The Species is about evolution and the evidence for it. Darwin didn’t know much about modern physics so of course that’s not in there. Here’s one point I’d like you to address though:
Most scientists think (but would be happy to be proven wrong) that the stars (apart from the sun) are billions of lightyears away, and the fact that we see them now means they existed billions of years ago. How do you explain the presence of their light? Did god put it there? How far away is it and how fast can it go?(By the way, look up the speed of light, it’s about 300,000 k/h i think).
Point is, the universe is really old, about 13 billion years. The earth, about 4.5 billion from memory. That’s my point of view at the moment…What can you do to persuade me otherwise?
@Interviewer:
Read Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin.
It’s a great book that details for a casual audience the discovery of the Tiktaalik, an important fossil that shows the transition of creatures from land to sea (hence it’s the the finding of one of the missing links).
Shubin and his team used simple evolutionary biology, geology and logic to get a general location of the fossil – actually finding the fossil took several years (and the book breaks down the entire process with great clarity).
There’s logic and a consistency to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution and the evidence supporting it (once you read the details) that make it a more plausible explanation of how we came to be as opposed to Creationism. Which is why many people readily accept it.
Finally as to why Comfort’s modified Origin of Species shouldn’t be freely distributed, read this flyer (it’ll take less than a min) which briefly mentions some of the bad science and history given in Comfort’s introduction:
http://www.dontdissdarwin.com/resources/comfort_flyer_final.pdf
[...] last week. If you aren’t sure what I’m talking about, see my article on the shenanigans here, and read about Jack Scanlan’s experience here. Details of the event and official [...]
[...] Species last week. If you aren’t sure what I’m talking about, see my article on the shenanigans here, and read about Jack Scanlan’s experience here. Details of the event and official announcement [...]
[...] can read about the incident over at Homologous Legs and Divisible By Pi, both blogs from members of the Secular Society who managed to talk with the [...]